I didn’t know this but……..

A matter of life and death – and conviction?

The terms and tones of debate are useful, as they demonstrate the mindsets of the players. They also clearly show where faith is based upon realistic foundations. “Unvaccinated America”  posted the following discovery on  5 August 2012:

I didn’t know this until today! Did you? If a person tells you that the link between vaccines and autism has been scientifically disproven, kindly remind them that the man responsible for allegedly disproving the connection between the MMR vaccine and Autism has been indicted on fraud charges by the United States Department of Justice. He never did the study, and the data he submitted was fabricated. He bought a new house and a Harley motorcycle instead:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2011/04-13-11.html”

Susan Faia Eaton

That’s why I never listen to any pro-vaxers. My children are not their Guinea pigs. My reason to not vaccinate had more reasons than just high chance of getting Autism but permanent brain damage, serious illness, cancer, allergies and low immune system thus getting sick all the time, then having to be on more drugs. Oh and death!

Kyle Lloyd Munson

Yeah but what they fail to tell you in this article is the timeline of events. The alleged “fraud” by Thorson did not happen until at least a year after the publication of the thimerosal study which was validated and still holds up. [Clearly not a true statement on several grounds eg it was not a Thimerosol study]

Tammy Monroe McMullen

I still believe in vaccinating my kids. I also believe that the MMR shot DOES cause autism if given too close to other shots. You can’t protect from everything and not everything is good for us I understand. But safety belts in a vehicle can also cause death…IN RARE CASES!!! That doesn’t mean every seat belt will kill every person who usues them! It just means everyone who fails to use one could die faster than those who do use them. It’s a percaution just like many other thing’s. Nothing is fail proof! Helmets while on bikes, pedal or motor, can HELP you in an accident…depending on the accident. So are you going to be the one NOT using a helmet? I wear mine every time! It’s a choice. Each of us have to make the choice for ourselves unless a law is in place…then suck it up! Until then, we all are trying our best with the info provided. Good luck with your choices.

Chris Hemmings

Tammy, you distract by using an analogy which has poor synergy with the matter in hand. Vaccination is a direct intervention with the metabolism of the body with lasting physiological outcomes, using powerful (bio)chemicals, whereas a bike helmet you can just take off after your ride.

There is often legal as well as strong social and economic pressure being exerted by the vaccination lobby and the above case demonstrates just how far they are prepared to bend rules and lie to support their position.

Several other pro-MMR studies as published in the Lancet etc are also deeply flawed as they fail to approach the subject objectively. For example:

1: A large study which looked for reactions to the vaccination only noted those arising in the week following the date it was administered.

2: A comparison between children who received the MMR with other children who did not and finds no difference in numbers of autistic cases arising fails to point out that the second group had received a range of other childhood jabs which can and do precipitate the same autistic outcomes.

Genevieve L Ferrantino

Good to know

Sean Cannon

Would you rather have an autistic child or one that dies of Mumps or Measles?

Sarel Botha

Sean, your chances of getting those diseases are very small and a very small number of people actually die from those diseases. Also, do you know how many children die from vaccines? http://vactruth.com/2011/05/05/infant-mortality-rates-increase-with-vaccines/

Sarel Botha

There were many studies, but there are problems with all of them http://www.14studies.org/studies.html. The study the medical industry will never do is to compare vaccinated and non-vaccinated children http://www.vaccineinjury.info/vaccinations-in-general/health-unvaccinated-children/survey-results.html

Unvaccinated America

It is MUCH easier to recover from mumps or measles than to heal from autism. There is no comparison in my opinion.

Tammy Monroe McMullen

All of us have great points to our thoughts and opinions. However, I stand by my opinion. Yes helmets and seatbelts you can take off. So what?! The point is the same…NOTHING IS FAIL PROOF! Apparently, someone didn’t read and comprehend ALL of my comment. Measles and mumps are and illness. Autism is just a change. I wouldn’t want my children to have ANY of the mentioned or any other’s for that matter. AGAIN I SAY IT’S A CHOICE FOR ALL OF US TO MAKE FOR OURSELVES.

Rus Oister Jr

The reason why there is a small chance of getting measles or mumps is because most people get vacated for them. If we stop giving vaccines we will see them more often. I guess none of you give your kids processed food or let them drink tap water, I am sure you all have breast fed your kids as well because who knows what is in the formula.

Sean Cannon

I got all my vaccines and so did my kids, and we’re all happy and healthy. To each his own. Some infants probably react negatively to the vaccines, and some would likely die without them.

Chris Hemmings

Tammy, you cannot remove a vaccine and the damage stays with you for life. Mumps and Measles are just two weeks illness, Autism and other vaccine damage don’t go away – you remain “changed”. If vaccines are compulsory then, to me, that’s state inflicted and all for no benefit as our bodies’ immune systems are already totally able to fight off these infections.

Rus, Sean and Jake? No, I’ll leave them to do some research someday. Hopefully!

Tammy Monroe McMullen

Chris you are entitled to your opinion no matter who agrees or disagrees with you. I bet you got all of your vaccinations! Go ahead and NOT vacinate your kids. That’s your choice. But to love your kids totally and want to protect them to the fullest…except every illness that could kill them! Doesn’t make sense to me. Make sure to only wear clothes you made by hand, breast feed your children, make and grow your own food and home school your kids…I don’t want your kid’s around vaccinated kids including mine, so THEY become sick and die and you bitch saying we did that!! Stop bitching about my comments because I heard your opinion the first time! Find someone else to rag on!!! I STAND BY MY VACCINATED KIDS AND SELF!

Christina Kirtley

That is crazy!!

Tammy Monroe McMullen

Chris I understand you have been educated highly on this topic and probably many other’s but I don’t care. Chemotherapy is a poison used to kill a bigger poison…cancer! Same difference. We do the best we can with the info provided and found. My kid’s are proudly vaccinated!!! I am proudly vaccinated!!!!! My dog is proudly vaccinated!!!!! Do you get it now? There isn’t an arguement in the world you will win over me!

Andrew Moyer

My brother who is a pediatrician I might add says you are putting your kids more at risk not getting your kids vaccinated than the vaccinations themselves.

[And he then brings his brother into the chat:]

Alvin Moyer

This whole debate is occurring because of the success of these vaccines. If people remembered the thousands of children who died each year from vaccine preventable diseases, there wouldn’t be a debate. And FYI, it is Paul Wakefield, the man who first published a “suggestion” that MMR vaccine and autism were linked, who has been indicted on fraud and had his medical license revoked. Thousands of studies have been published finding no link.

Jo Ann Steinmetz

Keep raising awareness about the truth, Alvin.

China Gushiken

Omg!

Sound Mamas

Yes! Spread the truth!

Chris Hemmings

Alvin, whilst you are correct that the UK General Medical Council, GMC,  took away ANDY Wakefield’s doctor’s certificate that is not the issue here.

Dr Poul Thorsen is the one indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of wire fraud and money laundering based on a scheme to steal the grant money that the Center for Disease Control, CDC,  had awarded to governmental agencies in Denmark for autism research who’s wholly flawed and compromised “disproval” of Wakefield et al’s work was then used by the medical establishment against Andy.

Simply the evidence they site is based on flawed sampling and skewed comparisons which demonstrate nothing other than a way for fraudulent researchers to tap into bottomless pots of funding to sample at will.

Oh, and Tammy this is not a “who can shout loudest” competition and frankly I do not care whether I can provide simple arguments on this site to convince you to balance your views. It’s others I care about, those with open minds and, most importantly, the generations not even born yet. It’s them I’m mostly concerned about as I want them to be born.

Andrea Murch Stevens

Oh my gosh! I am laughing at the ignorance on this thread. Obviously the pro vaccinators haven’t done any research since they are just spouting off pro vaccine propaganda.

Carolyn  Bursle

Thorsen’s study is not the only one disproving a link. So there’s a fraudster on each side, but the real science is overwhelmingly on the vaccine side.

Jodie Tysver Jensen

A different perspective? Consider the source. It tends to be hurting, regretful parents of damaged children who voice their strong opinion that vaccines are potentially very dangerous. It also tends to be drug companies, with something ($$) to gain, that insist on the harmlessness of injecting chemicals into tiny bodies. Parents have nothing to gain except sharing a heartfelt story to help others avoid such tragic consequences. When you side with anti-vaxers, they reap no benefit. When you side with pro-vaxers, the difference is a larger bank account for them…

Which is where the conversation ended. Part of me wants to add a commentary to highlight matters I see it illustrating and how opposing camps are structured. For now, though, I think it’s illustrative enough as a stand alone entity but away from the initial high speed and heat of the exchange.

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About greencentre

Non grant supported hence independent scientist, green activist, writer and forest planter.
This entry was posted in Andy Wakefield, Infectious diseases, MMR, Scientific method, Vaccination, Vaccine damage. Bookmark the permalink.

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